tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post1577348841474704953..comments2023-05-03T06:21:48.934-07:00Comments on Context Response: What's in a name?Enrichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11407399571726349154noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-18705727903414632422014-05-14T23:13:56.513-07:002014-05-14T23:13:56.513-07:00A huge thanks to you for sharing this Blog your bl...A huge thanks to you for sharing this Blog your blog content is very nice ,<br />I have read your blog, your blog information is very usefull <br /><a href="http://www.webgatewebwayindia.net" title="Best Web Design Company" rel="nofollow"> Web Design Company India </a><br /><a href="http://www.webgatewebwayindia.co.uk" title="Best Web Design Company" rel="nofollow"> Web Design Company </a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06097750510975459449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-54261721356307564512011-12-19T21:59:34.120-08:002011-12-19T21:59:34.120-08:00Hi!, Very interest angle, we were talking about th...Hi!, Very interest angle, we were talking about the same thing at work and found your site very stimulating. So felt <br /><br />compelled to comment a huge thank you for all your effort. Please keep up the great work your doing!<br /><a href="http://unnatifortunenoida.blogspot.com/2011/11/unnati-aranya-apartments-noida.html" rel="nofollow">apartments in noida</a><br /><a href="http://unnatifortunenoida.blogspot.com/2011/11/unnati-aranya-apartments-noida.html" rel="nofollow">flats in noida</a><br /><a href="http://unnatifortunenoida.blogspot.com/2011/11/unnati-aranya-apartments-noida.html" rel="nofollow">property in noida</a><br /><a href="http://unnatifortunenoida.blogspot.com/2011/11/unnati-aranya-apartments-noida.html" rel="nofollow">aranya in noida</a>Unnati Aranya Apartments Noidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12017833876411028405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-49423787747810322822009-07-20T21:50:51.125-07:002009-07-20T21:50:51.125-07:00This is indeed tricky. The key, as one commenter s...This is indeed tricky. The key, as one commenter suggested above (and if I may expand on it), is what impression a reasonable visitor to the Ammunition site would get if they saw the work. Would they recognize it was from another team, or would they believe it was Ammunition’s alone?<br /> I realize many of our professional work today is collaborative, and this sort of cross-pollination, for want of a better term, is going to become more commonplace. The internet has seen to that. But does the average punter hiring this design firm know? I’m going to lean toward that being a yes: the audience Ammunition is likely to attract is not the Mom and Pop store down the road.<br /> If I were MetaDesign, I would examine what agreements were in place. I would prefer it if the folks at Ammunition had sought permission, and would like to give them the benefit of the doubt (absent of any information to the contrary) that they did. Our former team members have been very good at seeking permission, but maybe it’s because they know that I am very likely to say yes.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18013696218856088709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-29816054012533396642009-02-19T15:28:00.000-08:002009-02-19T15:28:00.000-08:00Let's return to the blog's 'Legality' section stat...Let's return to the blog's 'Legality' section statement re: "IDEO 'inventing' the mouse"... <BR/><BR/>This whole discussion centers, wraps, and warps around those who chose to bend the truth; try Wikipedia, or just Google 'Mouse Inventor'.<BR/><BR/> Wasn't there that SRI guy, D. Englebart, who not only provided the theoreticals, but a functioning wooden-cased 1:1 mock up, replete with optical encoders, and the software demo. of the backend? <BR/><BR/>How 'bout the fact that the Industrial Designer was an Apple employee? <BR/><BR/> By whatever name, the forerunner to IDEO provided mechanical packaging and drafting services to their client, Apple. let's not confuse proficiency with invention.<BR/><BR/> Perhaps interested souls should interrupt their blogging, and instead spend a night on Wikipedia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-47740041364490490122009-01-29T22:42:00.000-08:002009-01-29T22:42:00.000-08:00I'm late to the party.With all due respect for the...I'm late to the party.<BR/><BR/>With all due respect for the talent these guys have - and I'm quite sincere when I say it was a privilege to work with them - the presentation of this work in this way is unethical.<BR/><BR/>What is it that is marketed on a design agency's web site by way of presenting a portfolio? Is it creative vision - or is it creative vision plus the ability to get the job done (including project management, technical considerations, production, implementation, content development...)? What allows all of these elements to come together in a successful whole? The company. Its leadership, its philosophy, its hiring practices.<BR/><BR/>The company deserves the attribution for the project.<BR/><BR/>I don't see any gray area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-83565086368588641102009-01-26T22:25:00.000-08:002009-01-26T22:25:00.000-08:00Thanks to everyone who weighed in; I guess we woul...Thanks to everyone who weighed in; I guess we wouldn't be designers if we weren't passionate about our ideas, thoughts, and work, and it shows in these responses. I'm hopeful that being passionate doesn't and won't supersede our capacity for mutual respect, honesty, and empathy, or impair our ability to collaborate and support each other in our shared goal of designing a better world. Peace in the Middle East...as well as in the Yay.Joycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12865857429497543014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-62259177424513464492009-01-26T22:09:00.000-08:002009-01-26T22:09:00.000-08:00All these anonymous comments make for a pretty goo...All these anonymous comments make for a pretty good "guess who wrote what" game. and since I've been a prime suspect supposedly responsible for some of them (based on the number of inquiries in the past week, both explicit and implicit, from a number of people), I might as well weigh in on the issue here for the first time. Can't hurt if you're already in jail.<BR/><BR/>I currently work for neither company, so for the most part I don't care who fucks who to death. Although an interesting analogy can be used to describe the situation: what if the creative director of Louie Vuitton decides to go work for Coach, and suddenly you start to see the LV handbag in the Coach shop window? i'd imagine there would be some pretty confused customers.<BR/><BR/>I worked on a few of the MetaDesign projects on the Ammo site. So what. They also show up on a few other people's portfolios as well, as with most of my work throughout my career. It's called team work. Although I think it's one thing to show them in the privacy of a conference room, and quite another in full view of the general public on the web.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, none of this will matter. In 6 months there will be something else to talk about, Ammo will have new work to show, MetaDesign will stop scratching the itch on its back. People will still hate each other. What can you do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-26685791751056061642009-01-26T00:27:00.000-08:002009-01-26T00:27:00.000-08:00this is a bummer. however it reflects the business...this is a bummer. however it reflects the business ethos of these two guys- and i very much detest itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-21301125117924200312009-01-24T17:08:00.000-08:002009-01-24T17:08:00.000-08:00I’ve heard some of the criticism and discussion ar...I’ve heard some of the criticism and discussion around my last post, taken it to heart, and I wanted to set the record straight. I misspoke. In fact, I wasn’t the <I>only</I> designer on the non-MetaDesign-designed Ammunition projects (the ones designed by MetaDesigners). I was also not — in most cases — the creative director on those projects. But I do own a Fuego grill. They’re great.Lemmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801116587809563252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-72042156395529283922009-01-24T11:56:00.000-08:002009-01-24T11:56:00.000-08:00I don’t know what everybody’s so worked up over. I...I don’t know what everybody’s so worked up over. I’m, you know, clearly the aggrieved party here, man. The <I>other</I> work on the Ammunition website — painstakingly designed only by me — is now being crowded out by all this MetaDesign stuff. You think those grills designed themselves?Lemmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801116587809563252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-42696377735674504112009-01-23T18:04:00.000-08:002009-01-23T18:04:00.000-08:00These guys (and their entire group) should have kn...These guys (and their entire group) should have known better. What they have done here is clearly misleading.<BR/><BR/>The weenie little "credit" approach they have taken is a joke.<BR/><BR/>There are so many other ways they could have shown this work and still reaped its benefit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-54695476605881041872009-01-23T14:54:00.000-08:002009-01-23T14:54:00.000-08:00As a member of the San Francisco design community,...As a member of the San Francisco design community, and a long time admirer of firms like Meta & Pentagram, this is dispiriting. As everyone else has noted, designers of this caliber should know better. Every designer knows that any time you agree to work for someone else, that firm will always have the right to claim your work as theirs. This much is clear. But the notion that another firm altogether, one that perhaps didn't even exist when the work in question was created, could suddenly claim your work as theirs, well... that's just heartbreaking.<BR/><BR/>Looking from the outside in, this is also troubling in other aspects. If I were a potential client of Ammunition, this discussion would call into question not only the Meta-related aspects of their site, but really their entire body of work. If this firm is willing to be so blatant about misleading people with these particular attributions, I'd wonder: where else are they being deceitful?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-75301541637311777532009-01-23T12:48:00.000-08:002009-01-23T12:48:00.000-08:001. Even if Meta had gone out of business, ethical ...1. Even if Meta had gone out of business, ethical issues remain. The work WASN'T created at Ammo and to position it as if it was isn't honest. The fact reamins it was created in a different environment with different people. More importantly, it still undercuts the ability of the rest of the creative team to legitimately show it in their portfolios—Ammo won't be on their CV. It sets up the needless situation for clients/creative directors to figure out who isn't being forthright. This puts more junior people at a disadvantage and it makes the design profession look—frankly—sleezy.<BR/><BR/>2. Trying to reinforce something like this is almost impossible. It's costly (in terms of both staff time and legal fees) and sets up an atmosphere of mistrust. Fortunately the actions of folks like Brett and Matt are in the minority. Most designers (in my experience) usually want to do the right thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-69327193379517986022009-01-23T12:25:00.000-08:002009-01-23T12:25:00.000-08:00Two pointsi) Would we assess this situation differ...Two points<BR/>i) Would we assess this situation different ethically if MetaDesign was no longer in business?<BR/><BR/>ii) Do you think MetaDesign holds any responsibility for not creating clear employment documents that specify what is permissible in situations like this and/or enforcing them?Steve Portigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974765788548616925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-8221727677853630312009-01-23T10:52:00.000-08:002009-01-23T10:52:00.000-08:00As the previous poster Enric mentioned, I think th...As the previous poster Enric mentioned, I think the distinction between <I>what</I> was done and <I>how</I> it was done is important.<BR/><BR/>All design firms -- no mater what size -- have to start somewhere and must to be able to show the competency of their employees. I previously worked for a design firm that was just starting up, and the principals didn't have much work to show other than what they had done at previous firms. They showed that work on their web site, along with credits that were prominent and in plain view.<BR/><BR/>This is not, however, the case with the MetaDesign work shown on Ammunition Group's site. The site's landing page quickly flashes images of projects, including those created while at MetaDesign, which clearly gives an initial impression that all work shown was created at Ammunition. Also, as mentioned by other posters, not only are credits tiny (and gray), but they are hidden behind rollover links. Another interesting thing to note is that the credit links do not appear immediately when scrolling though the Work page. Whether or not this happens by design, it serves to bury the credits even further.<BR/><BR/>The partners at Ammunition Group have more than enough experience in the industry to know that what they have done, while probably not illegal, is highly unethical. Whether or not they choose to admit that fact to themselves, though, is another story. Denial, as they say, runs deep. But then again, so does Karma. The design community in San Francisco is very small, and clients who buy design at the level offered by Ammunition Group are not stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-80313389149659451262009-01-23T10:35:00.000-08:002009-01-23T10:35:00.000-08:00having a own company I understand why this kind of...having a own company I understand why this kind of things can happen BUT what happened here is insane.<BR/>Brett and Matt should not have allowed that kind of presentation. They can talk about what they have done in their BIOs but not on a corporate site.<BR/>I know that both think they are the greatest and I wondered but now CASE closedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-14047543946087177462009-01-23T01:54:00.000-08:002009-01-23T01:54:00.000-08:00To Anonymous (re: comment of January 22, 2009 11:1...To Anonymous (re: comment of January 22, 2009 11:13 PM)<BR/><BR/>re: "defriending" <BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>By defriending their ex-colleagues (the easy option in the sandbox world of Facebook for a spiteful breakup), the ex-Meta "team" (all two of them), now Ammunition pair, would seem to be reacting as "You're either with us or against us." <BR/><BR/>...just like the recently departed presidential administration, with all their notable achievements in the world of conflict. <BR/><BR/>Following that combative analogy, isn't it poetic that the pair's selection of new firm to join is named "Ammunition"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-69784338497952202482009-01-22T23:13:00.000-08:002009-01-22T23:13:00.000-08:00Apparently, the ex-MetaSF partners at Ammunition h...Apparently, the ex-MetaSF partners at Ammunition have defriended some of their former colleagues at Metadesign on Facebook.<BR/><BR/>Now THAT is a mature reaction to a totally objective and constructive blog post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-43296910333893660392009-01-22T17:09:00.000-08:002009-01-22T17:09:00.000-08:00It's interesting that a few days ago, the credit r...It's interesting that a few days ago, the credit rollovers for the projects in question said “Designed while at MetaDesign”, but they now say “Creative Direction by partner Brett Wickens while at MetaDesign.”<BR/><BR/>Hmmmmm......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-43549774696567774422009-01-22T14:53:00.000-08:002009-01-22T14:53:00.000-08:00As an ex-Meta who worked on a great number of thos...As an ex-Meta who worked on a great number of those projects I'm deeply saddened to see it used in such an unethical manner. <BR/><BR/>While Brett Wickens obviously played a part in the work shown I find it pretty insulting to those that contributed the vast majority of the work. Without the effort made by the entire team none of this work would have been possible. <BR/>It would have been fine to show potential clients the work behind closed doors with the preface that it was done while at MetaDesign but to show it along side Ammunition's work lacks ethics of any sort.<BR/><BR/>Karma's a bitch. Matt and Brett I can only hope you guys read this and reconsider your actions. They speak much louder than the words on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-88734803569546258072009-01-22T12:47:00.000-08:002009-01-22T12:47:00.000-08:00As many others have said here, this truly really ...As many others have said here, this truly really is disappointing to see. Stepping on those around you only shows a lack of integrity. What good is this portfolio of work if his reputation suffers for it and people stop respecting him? Does the work matter then?<BR/><BR/>I am sad to admit that I bought and had signed my "Do You Matter" book - and now I just want to toss it out with the rest of my design promo junk mail. Brunner certainly doesn't matter to me anymore, good work or not.<BR/><BR/>"What goes around, comes around"<BR/>I'm sure many of us can't wait for this to happen to Brunner. He's got it comin'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-47312276297761604702009-01-22T12:17:00.000-08:002009-01-22T12:17:00.000-08:00As a former MetaDesigner who had a significant han...As a former MetaDesigner who had a significant hand in much of the work in question (arguably more than the two individuals who have claimed it as theirs, in fact), this situation is thoroughly disappointing. It sets a terrible precedent for other studios, presents a bad example to younger designers, and taints Robert Brunner's reputation no end. It also does a major disservice to all those other individuals who played a role in creating the work, and assumes that clients (both past and potential) are idiots.<BR/><BR/>Annoying as it is, the old adage that "you're only as good as your last project" seems quite applicable here. Ammunition's non-existent graphics portfolio has swollen immensely simply by hiring a couple of people from MetaDesign – hiring some executive staff, not acquiring the company, lock, stock, and portfolio, that is. Make no mistake: the buried attribution for the work is a clear intent to mislead, and while a handful of clients may not fall for it, many will. This is a cynical ploy and exposes an unethical side to the Ammunition leadership. What goes around, comes around...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-7291486237197071162009-01-22T11:46:00.000-08:002009-01-22T11:46:00.000-08:00There is lots of gray area surrounding this issue....There is lots of gray area surrounding this issue. I've been in the position of starting my own office after years at a large design firm. It was obvious that without a visual representation of my abilities attracting work would be impossible. You have to show work you've done as an employee. I believe it is totally ethical as long as you do three things:<BR/><BR/>You are clear about where the work was done.<BR/><BR/>You are sensitive to any conflicts that may occur as a result of showing the work (is your new office featuring the exact same work in a way similar to your former employer? A key case study on line for instance. If so a conflict arises and the firm where the work originated should have sole ownership). <BR/><BR/>You were THE designer. This is the key issue for me. Yes all design solutions are the result of collaboration but we all know the rolls we played. If I designed the identity I'm very comfortable showing it and claiming it as my design. I know from experience that even within large firms there are many times when senior level designers are the authors of the final creative product. The actual creator must have some ownership regardless of where he was sitting at the time of creation. Lots of gray area for sure (tough to say this for interactive projects). <BR/><BR/>There is a graphic design firm in San Francisco that forbids its employees to show any work done while an employee. I would never work for them and would never advise a young designer to join them. It is a denial of the contribution made by the designers. It furthers the cult of God like principles/geniuses. Total nonsense. This needs to be a rational, honest process with all parties showing empathy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-90706272015967810252009-01-22T10:20:00.000-08:002009-01-22T10:20:00.000-08:00dear mr. anonymous,attribution is not a tricky sub...dear mr. anonymous,<BR/><BR/>attribution is not a tricky subject. you either made it, or you didn't make it. if you're tip toeing around the whole situation, then you probably didn't do it. attribution is only tricky if you make it so.<BR/><BR/>yours,<BR/>fellow anonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7365789476288129371.post-40941754540505939822009-01-22T04:01:00.000-08:002009-01-22T04:01:00.000-08:00As one of the founding partners of the MetaSF offi...As one of the founding partners of the MetaSF office I faced the dilemma of having to start a company/office without a portfolio of work. We had work to show from our Berlin office, but it wasn't work done by us. In the early days we had to show our individual portfolios and explain that it was work completed at other firms in collaboration with other people. Some clients were willing to give us a chance; some told us to come back when we had a portfolio of projects from our office to show. It wasn't easy, but we felt it was the ethical thing to do. Within a year it was no longer an issue. <BR/><BR/>As others on this string have pointed out, there is a difference between showing work as an individual consultant/freelancer and as a design firm. Work prominently displayed on a firm's website says 'this is work we created' a small credit or roll-over doesn't change the impression. Ethics are a tricky thing and the boundaries are rarely clear. I always ask myself 'what would I say to my students about this situation?' Would the partners at Ammunition tell their students that it was ethical to display work completed at another firm at the same level of hierarchy alongside work that was their own? Somehow, I don't think they would.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com